A Recent Conversation About Abortion

I thought I would share a conversation that I had with a friend about abortion today. I will abbreviate the boy's name as 'C'. The conversation was in response to this story:

A worried woman went to her gynecologist and said, "Doctor, I have a serious problem and desperately need your help! My baby is not even 1 year old and I'm pregnant again. I don't want kids so close together"

The doctor said "Ok and what do you want me to do?"

She said "I want you to end my pregnancy, and I'm counting on your help with this"

The doctor thought for a little, and after some silence he said to the lady, "I think I have a better solution for your problem. It's less dangerous for you too".

She smiled, thinking that the doctor was going to accept her request. Then he continued, "You see, in order for you not to have to take care of 2 babies at the same time, let's kill the one in your arms. This way, you could rest some before the other one is born. If we're going to kill one of them, it doesn't matter which one it is. There would be no risk for your body if you chose the one in your arms"

The lady was horrified and said "No doctor! How terrible! It's a crime to kill a child!"

"I agree" the doctor replied. "But you seemed to be OK with it, so I thought maybe that was the best solution". The doctor smiled, realizing that he had made his point. He convinced the woman that there is no difference in killing a child that's already been born and one that's still in the womb. The crime is the same!

 

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C: I believe it's quality of life rather than the quantity of lives. I think it's easy just to say "we can save lives, so no matter what we must save them", but if you're risking the lives of those around the child, and the child's itself just because people want to try and stand on a high moral ground, fighting for something in which they don't really have a huge say in... i dunno, i just don't think it's fair to have loads of peoples lives jeopardised by people who want to wear a big S on the front of their shirt trying to be a hero. It's all fine saying you want to save lives, cool, but how about fighting for those out there who genuinely need it and can't do anything about it. There are better more important things to fight for than trying to say the Quantity of Lives is more important than the Quality. Which i believe, it is not.

Me: I understand what you're saying, but I think the problem is how do we judge a quality of life? People often think abortion is justified if the child would have a 'poor quality of life', well what does that mean? Babies can be aborted if they have club foot. Does that mean they wouldn't have a good quality of life? How can we possibly define that? In which case it seems like a weak reason to abort a baby

C:  Mhm, i doubt anyone can argue with that really, seeing as hindsight is a wonderful thing and it's impossile to know beforehand. Plus, i can see how some people would say a child born into a 1st world country with some family problems would live a much better life than those in developing countries (even though that's kinda path dependancy which is a totally different topic altogether). I just think there are so many negative ethical complications, to what would be essentially forcing a woman to have a child, that it isn't worth the amount of lives you'd put in harms way/problems you'd cause. Sure, it could be the best thing that happens these people around the child, but as a general thing, i don't think it's what most people would say today is 'for the best'

C: Putting it this way, what we're all saying here, is that because the child doesn't have a voice, we're going to give it one by fighting for it's life. But that's exactly NOT what you set out to do here in the first place! (because you make their decision for them!) I think i can speak for most people here when i say that if i had a rational, sympathic, fully thinking brain when i was in my mothers womb, and i had a say in the matter, if my mother didn't feel like she could cope with me and give me a happy life that (i believe) everyone deserves, and that she ultimately isn't ready/doesn't want me at this time in here life, i'd have to bite the bullet and be selfless, saying that it really is, at the end of the day, her call. (So i see what you mean with the whole.... 'where do we draw a line', i guess i'm just saying that we kinda already have a pen in our hands, all we need to draw now is draw it)

Me: I don't think you'd be forcing a woman to have a child, because apart from extremely rare cases where a woman has become pregnant through rape, women can control whether or not they get pregnant. If they didn't want to have a child, they should have taken preventive measures in the first instance. That's where the mother had her call. If she couldn't do that then she only has herself to blame for the situation she now finds herself in. She shouldn't take out her frustrations on the unborn child.

Me: I don't see how ending the life of a child before it's born would ever be a good thing. You just don't know what will happen, for example Steve Jobs is only here because his mother chose to give him up for adoption rather than abort him. Also the baby will feel pain from 6 weeks gestation. From the mother's perspective also, she has no idea what will happen. I know people who've had abortions that now find it difficult to conceive again, or have had several miscarriages, leaving their bodies permanently damaged from the abortion. Was the abortion therefore beneficial even for her? Emotional trauma is another factor, I know people who are tormented by what they did and by thoughts about what their baby would be like now. Thus, where is the benefit to anyone from an abortion?

My Take on Abortion

Recently this has been a topic of conversation among me and a friend. I will summarise my view and then explain why I hold this view. I do not agree with abortion under any circumstance, at any time during pregnancy.

Why?

1. Because there is no such thing as an 'accidental' pregnancy. If your condom breaks, you could have been taking the pill at the same time, or even have the implant. It's called 'double dutch', using 2 methods of contraception at once to prevent pregnancy. If you use the condom properly and take your pill properly in the first place, they're unlikely to fail anyway. If you're still worried. DON'T HAVE SEX! There's no excuse for abortion.
2. It could damage the woman permanently. Both physically - you may find it hard to conceive in future, if at all, your chance of miscarriages increase and emotionally - you don't know how you will react to what you're doing. Guilt, regret, sadness, depression can all set in at any time and stay there.
3. It's the biggest kick in the teeth you could ever give someone who is unable to have children for a legitimate reason (e.g. not someone who had an abortion before). While others are desperate for a child to care and love on, others stupidly get pregnant and terminate it. How nice.
4. You are taking a life, abortion is murder even if you'd like to live in ignorance and pretend it's not

"But what if you get pregnant from rape? That's harsh" my answer to this is: the woman's been raped, she's unlucky, if she's pregnant she's even more unlucky. Do you really think giving her an abortion will help anything? You might physically damage her, which will remind her forever more of her ordeal. You might emotionally damager her, do you want her to feel sad or depressed even further because she aborted? She wouldn't have to keep the child. There's always adoption.

"But what if the child has a disability?" Firstly, it's not always certain that the baby does. I know people who were told their baby would be born with down's syndrome. He wasn't. What if he was aborted? I know another couple who were told their baby would be born club-footed. Around 64 babies a year (I read in The Times circa 2009) are aborted due to club foot. That isn't even serious. This baby was born club footed and by the age of 2 this had been corrected via physiotherapy and corrective footwear. He is now 20 years old, walks fine in normal shoes and you can't tell by looking at him or his feet that he was ever club-footed. If we try to wean out 'disabilities' and imperfections before children are born, we might get it wrong and we do for a start, but how will that make those who are born with disabilities feel? And lastly, if you can't deal with your child having an issue, are you really ready to be a parent?

"But it's the woman's body, she should get to choose what happens" sorry, but you are in control of your body. If you don't want to be pregnant, take precautions, it isn't rocket science. It's not as if you walk along minding your own business and all of a sudden "oh crap, I'm pregnant". If you can't take precautions, don't have sex. And ignoring the instructions on pill packets for example (like taking them when you feel like it rather than at a required set time each day) then wondering why it didn't work is an example of a precaution missed. I've heard that excuse from someone trying to prove she did use protection.
If you're now wondering why it's such a big deal to abort babies, or fetuses if you prefer, I will now explain that.

Dictionary.com defines life as "The condition that distinguishes animals and plants from inorganic matter, including the capacity for growth, reproduction, functional activity, and continual change preceding death". So, by definition, a fetus is still a life because it has the capacity for growth, it will be capable of reproduction, it does function, it does change and it can die.

Here's a summary of the stages of growth while the baby is in the womb:

• 3 weeks: The heart begins to beat, the brain begins to develop into sections
• 4 weeks: The central nervous system (CNS) begins to develop
• 5 weeks: By this time the nose and ears are externally formed, the kidneys also begin to develop
• 6 weeks: The brain emits measurable impulses, bodily movements can be observed and the baby can start to feel pain and respond to stimuli
• 7 weeks: The 4 chambered heart is completely formed, fingers and toes are completely separated
• 8 weeks: Every organ is now present and in place
• 9 weeks: The eyelids close at this point and the fetus is able to suck its thumb
• 10 weeks: Fingernails and toenails appear and the fetus will have a unique fingerprint
• 16 weeks: The mother can start to feel kicking, fine hairs begin to cover the whole body
• 22 weeks: The fetus is now viable

(Source: Abort73.com)

And FYI, in the UK an abortion can be carried out up to 24 weeks into the gestation. In which case the baby will have been viable for 2 weeks. If the fetus is thought to have a severe abnormality, there is no limit to when it can be aborted. Most women are granted an abortion on the grounds that it will damage their mental health to continue with the pregnancy if they don't want it. (Y'know, cause it's not like she could have thought about that before she got pregnant?)

And a few last words: if a pregnant woman is killed, the killer will be charged for murder (for the woman) and manslaughter of the fetus in the US and the UK. Why is this the case if the fetus isn't alive or a person? If you stop someone from living, because a fetus is living and will become viable, isn't that killing? If a diabetic requires insulin and you take it from them, they will die, you have caused their death. Isn't that the same if you kill a fetus dependant temporarily on the mother?